#1

He was diagnosed early!!
By 6 he was labeled an acquisitive psychopath and anti-authoritarian personality disorder.
This was in the early 60s and the labels were very different but I can assure you there was something very wrong with him.
I can also assure you my parents were lovely. Our home was safe, clean, upper middle class, polite, kind and my parents were wonderful people who sent us both to private school. That private school expelled him.
He dropped out of the sky insane.
There was no early trauma.
He was born missing empathy.
I think just like you could be born missing a limb, you could be born missing an emotional capacity.
I don’t see the need to blame his upbringing.
Sometimes a person is just born missing something.
#2

#3

Another notable one I had, once I made them feel comfortable, let the mask down and let me know how much joy he took in making women feel uncomfortable and threatened. He took pleasure in their faces being mortified and scared for their lives.
A sign I get instantly is if they look me straight in the eyes and say some wild s**t, testing me. Typically though, these individuals are charismatic and funny, and will lower your defenses but will slip the second they don’t get their way. If you can be very validating, they will spill everything- they love to talk about how they f**k people over w a smile. They have a justification for everything. They also are super observant so they will make comments about my schedule they noticed or something personal, fishing always and testing boundaries. Notably do not care about boundaries. They will find loop holes in rules constantly.
Sociopathy is an incredibly complex mental disorder, and it shouldn’t be confused with psychopathy. This is because experts say that sociopathy falls under the designation of “Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD),” the same category as psychopaths. And so people diagnosed with this disorder show signs of a lack of empathy, deceitfulness, and repeated disregard for laws.
Typically, though, they still have a lack of remorse, but may occasionally feel empathy and other emotions, even if they’re shallow or fleeting. They also tend to lie and deceive. But one thing that sets those with sociopathy apart is that they are not necessarily born with these qualities. Sociopathy has been found to stem mostly from nurture, including environmental trauma, childhood violence, or severe neglect.
#4

#5

Honestly they usually don’t last that long in therapy. I wasn’t willing to completely validate every little thing she said either.
#6

But what actually sets them apart from psychopathy, which also falls under the ASPD umbrella? Well, for starters, psychopathy isn’t necessarily a disorder that someone develops. Instead, it is mainly nature rather than nurture. Most people with ASPD, specifically those exhibiting psychopathic traits, will likely show signs of it from an early age, as it is often associated with genetics or structural neurological differences.
And there are also plenty of traits that separate them from sociopathy. Mostly, they tend to be cold, calculating, and emotionally detached, as they are considered less capable of experiencing genuine empathy or forming emotional bonds with others. They can be dishonest without feeling guilt or anxiety. Instead, they may pretend to feel emotions, becoming skilled manipulators. All while a sociopath may still regret their actions.
#7

#8

Couples therapy seemed pointless because it seemed to never occur to the therapists that he was intentionally trying to hurt others. He presented as a mild tempered person who kept fumbling and making mistakes.
The things that he did were often so covert only he knew the truth. Things like making up excuses to why I couldn't access my insurance info. so I would miss my appointment. I only figured it out because when confronted of course it was all an accident or a misunderstanding, and in the more obvious scenarios he just "lost his temper", but the bad things happening never seemed to stop or get better. He downplayed any emotional distress I had. He finally told me something was wrong with him but that was just the way he was so he wasn't going to change. I finally divorced him soon after even though I should have trusted my gut all along. But no, therapists did not seem to catch on.
#9

A *psychopath* is someone who tends to lack empathy and or guilt. They typically can’t form attachments and usually tend to be manipulative and dishonest, but can often times be deceptively charming. They’re the ones that usually remain calm under pressure and are more cold and calculating.
A *sociopath* tends to have poor impulse control and be far more violent or quick to anger. They’re more likely to have emotional outbursts and show erratic and impulsive behavior.
A big, sometimes debated, distinction is that psychopaths are born versus sociopaths that are usually created due to some environmental factors or trauma. I think a lot of people here are describing psychopaths.
#10

Within a few weeks of starting my job, I learned that one of my direct reports was notoriously difficult to work with. The first thing she told me about herself is that she’s brutally honest and people have a hard time with that. She demanded a higher title that she was under qualified for, demanded a higher salary she was not entitled to, and started crying to some of our highest-tier leaders when she didn’t get what she wanted. (Mind you, she barely knew these people.) When I tried to give her performance feedback, she got defensive and started to insult me with obvious lies. She always talked herself up and name-dropped, but nobody seemed to really like her. No amount of employer training, feedback, etc. had historically helped her change her behavior. She was smart, but seemed to constantly self-sabotage in her professional life with her behavior.
I basically learned the hard way that I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to work with someone else like that as a therapist.
But getting a formal ASPD diagnosis is actually quite rare. This antisocial disorder affects about 1% to 4% of the adult population. As for true psychopathy, that only applies to around 1% of the general adult population. Nonetheless, the stories indicate that, in most cases, people themselves may not even know they have ASPD, since many choose not to seek a diagnosis in the first place.
Curiously, studies also show that men are roughly 3 to 4 times more likely to meet the criteria for ASPD than women, and the traits are most prominent in early adulthood. And due to the disorder’s tendency to involve disregard for social and legal norms, it’s not entirely surprising that around 40% to 70% of incarcerated men actually meet the diagnostic criteria for ASPD.
#11

#12

#13
His first therapist session starts and we were ordered to stand behind a wall and listen and come running in if he attacks the therapist. I had never heard him talking about how he felt about the things he did. But when the therapist starts asking him about guilt and how he feels and he start describing how he felt when he tried to m****r people, that he felt so alive, in control and he had imagined it for so long and how happy he was that the feeling was just like he imagined it and when they moved over to the SA on staff member that was a very serious attack and he described it as hot and he felt the same control and he had pleasured himself before it and imagined it and afterwards its all he thinks about when he pleasures himself and how h***y it makes him.
He went on about that the only thing he thinks about is how he can injure, k**l or SA the current staff and he even falls asleep with thought like that since they provide him comfort and calm him down.
After that session he was moved to a mental hospital, medicated and isolated and I know today 12 years later he is still in a mental hospital and I also know the conclusion was that he was never supposed to be free, ever.
Honestly after listening to the session, my world view changed. There is pure evil in this world not driven by hatred or anger but driven by people who enjoy hurting others.
#14

While dealing with, diagnosing, and treating someone with ASPD isn’t exactly a foreign concept to many mental health professionals — especially those specializing in the disorder — it can still be an incredibly draining task. For starters, the realization usually comes much later after the consultations begin, as they can often fall victim to what Hervey Cleckley called “The Mask of Sanity.”
This concept, which he introduced in his 1941 book The Mask of Sanity, explains how people with ASPD may present themselves as incredibly charming and rational. They will likely mimic behaviors they’ve internalized for years in order to appear as mentally stable as possible. But normally, a small slip will actually reveal the absence of emotion behind the mask, as many of the stories in the thread mention.
#15
After years of work, I've gotten to the point where I can at least understand why you feel the way you do on an intellectual level, at least, and attempt to come up with a somewhat passable response to that.
As for any darker tendencies and/or antisocial/immoral behavior, I've kept that well under wraps for decades, just by making an effort to associate only with nice people, who give me behavioral examples that I work hard to emulate.
There were issues in my younger days though, back when I was in the streets, involved in crime and heavy d***s. Remove me from my positive environment and people for too long...even now at 43 I know that it wouldn't take me too long to shift back to that other guy.
#16

Also, his smile. It's is objectively normal, but he only has ONE smile. The same for good news, or for great news, or for any reason at all. It's all the exact same smile, with no variation, ever. Like it's a tool he brings out and puts away when he's done with it.
#17

There's no universal initial sign. Many antisocial individuals are very friendly and polite, others are arrogant and rude. Some at least pretend to have empathy, others don't try to hide their indifference.
The assessment is made by gathering multiple sources of information, as you can't rely solely on what they tell you.
#18

Working with the first woman, she was distraut, provided witnesses to the accusations, and generally her story lined up.
With the accused, though... she seemed completely incapable of realizing she shouldn't be basically hunting this woman down, and didn't realize how guilty she sounded. She made it very clear that no matter where the other woman went, she'd persue her. I'm used to people like this, so it was pretty trivial to get her to confess to some pretty awful behavior, and she tried to justify it in ways that really wouldn't work (she didn't know about witnesses I had that countered her justifications).
Scary stuff, really.
Due to the eventual “mask falling” phenomenon that can occur during psychiatric treatment, very few people with ASPD actually stay in therapy after finding out they have the disorder. In fact, studies show that around 60% to 70% of patients diagnosed with ASPD end up dropping out of treatment altogether. Essentially, they may not even see their behavior as problematic because of the disorder’s ego-syntonic traits.
But truth be told, there is no “cure” for ASPD, nor is there any FDA-approved medication for it. Because of this, it is considered one of the most difficult mental health conditions to treat. But that’s not to say it’s impossible to manage. In fact, specialists might try a few different approaches, mostly focusing on managing behavior and reducing risk rather than trying to fix emotions that people with ASPD may not experience the same way.
#19

#20

Sociopaths aren’t all that rare, nor do they pose any real threat to society, their families, etc. We use them all the time in policing, military, CEOs, etc. where they’re quite useful.
One client couldn’t comprehend hurting the feelings of others, as he couldn’t personally experience that emotion. So I just explained everything like a flow chart. ‘Do this, then mom won’t pay for this, support you, etc. Do that and she is more likely to support you.’
For most clients, exploring the emotional impacts their decision have on others is an important part of a healthy mindset, but for sociopaths this doesn’t really work.


