Socially rejected, isolated, anxious, angry, lonely, chronically online, and marginalized young men are turning to manosphere influencers for answers. They become radicalized and embrace toxic masculinity, which harms not just them but also the people around them. However, many guys become disillusioned with these ideas. They embrace greater self-awareness and begin to see the world with more nuance.
#1
I grew up in a fairly racist and conservative environment. Then around 18 I moved out of the house to study and spent a lot more time on my own than normal. Then my long term GF cheated on me and left me. I was angry and I took it out on everyone. It was easy to find a community of people who hated women as much as I did and painted it as some sort of virtue.
And then I made better friends, fell in love again and gained a new understanding of my place in the world. I don't hate women anymore and don't spend time in those spaces.
And then I made better friends, fell in love again and gained a new understanding of my place in the world. I don't hate women anymore and don't spend time in those spaces.
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18points
To be clear: the issue is not masculinity in itself. Rather, the problem stems from stereotypical masculinity that, when taken to the extreme, results in toxic behavior, disrespect for other people, and worse emotional and mental health for everyone. Meanwhile, when young men feel that society tells them that ‘all’ masculinity is inherently toxic, they become more open to radicalization. The fact that guys are constantly exposed to manosphere-related content online exacerbates the issue.
Actual toxic masculinity (as opposed to healthy masculinity) revolves around men being pressured to dominate, be aggressive and violent, and win, control others, and attain power, status, financial wealth, and sexual success at any cost.
These men are often misogynistic, homophobic, and have a warped understanding of what men ‘should’ and ‘should not’ do. For example, toxic men are told to be tough and stoic and avoid showing weakness. They are pressured to never talk about their feelings, refuse to see a doctor or mental health specialist when they need to, and avoid household chores. What’s more, they are very sexually promiscuous while hypocritically criticizing women who behave the same way.
#2
I was 15 and videos of Andrew Tate saying funny & slightly agreeable [stuff] kept turning up on my TikTok.
LDel3:
Social media is a big part of it, they're preying on young boys.
LDel3:
Social media is a big part of it, they're preying on young boys.
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13points
#3
When in high school I was extremely unpopular with the ladies and I had a very weak self esteem. I had a loathing for the world around me and wanted to find something to blame for my lot in life. I joined the army and matured a bit. Some time after I started realizing I needed to just take better care of myself and be someone worthy of love, attention, you name it. I still hold the belief that nobody cares about you and that keeps me from fully moving over to more left leaning ideologies, but im far removed from the blame the weak mindset I used to have.
In my adolescence i was angsty and hurt because of sexual and mental trauma. But as I got older I found that nobody cares, and at the end of the day I have to do something about myself if I want things to improve. The right wing pipeline gave me an outlet to blame others, specifically women in my case. But the only way for me to move past that was actual self improvement and therapy. Thankfully im past that point in my life but its an easy path to slip into so I feel for a lot of these guys.
In my adolescence i was angsty and hurt because of sexual and mental trauma. But as I got older I found that nobody cares, and at the end of the day I have to do something about myself if I want things to improve. The right wing pipeline gave me an outlet to blame others, specifically women in my case. But the only way for me to move past that was actual self improvement and therapy. Thankfully im past that point in my life but its an easy path to slip into so I feel for a lot of these guys.
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10points
According to men’s health charity Movember, men and masculinity influencers are no longer niche or fringe. They are mainstream, discussing fitness, relationships, and financial success, all of which appeal to young men.
A whopping 63% of young men watch men and masculinity influencers. And even though 43% of this audience finds these influencers motivating, a significant number—27%—say they feel worthless.
“While primarily engaging with influencers for entertainment, many young men reported acting upon influencers advice. They described this content as entertaining, motivating and inspiring,” Movember writes. “Young men who watched these influencers were more likely to report worse mental health outcomes, a reduced willingness to make their mental health a priority, and a higher rate of risk-taking (such as steroid use or exercising while injured).”
#4
Men as a group are suffering. Men are not being offered any meaningful support by society to help alleviate that suffering.
One of my favourite quotes, ever, is from the Good Place. "People improve when they get external love and support. How can we hold it against them when they don't?”
If you want men to get out of the manosphere, then you need a better system of external love and support for men, because at the moment the manosphere is one of the few things offering any meaningful support for men. It's not good support. It's toxic and often shockingly sexist, but it is support nonetheless. Men need better systems.
Things are improving though. The Shoulder to Shoulder community for instance in London is an absolute star of getting men together to help each other, to support each other with uniquely men's issues. To help them develop as adults, the skills that fathers don't often teach their sons in terms of taking care of their mental and emotional well being. How to build genuine bonds and connections and how to build a community that men seem to lack.
I cannot say enough good things about them.
One of my favourite quotes, ever, is from the Good Place. "People improve when they get external love and support. How can we hold it against them when they don't?”
If you want men to get out of the manosphere, then you need a better system of external love and support for men, because at the moment the manosphere is one of the few things offering any meaningful support for men. It's not good support. It's toxic and often shockingly sexist, but it is support nonetheless. Men need better systems.
Things are improving though. The Shoulder to Shoulder community for instance in London is an absolute star of getting men together to help each other, to support each other with uniquely men's issues. To help them develop as adults, the skills that fathers don't often teach their sons in terms of taking care of their mental and emotional well being. How to build genuine bonds and connections and how to build a community that men seem to lack.
I cannot say enough good things about them.
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9points
#5
Ive read all the manosphere stuff. I’ve read most of the foundational feminist authors. I’ve spent a lot of time observing how both philosophies, and a whole bunch of other, played out in social media. From each of these I’ve found a handful of ideas that seem objectively correct to me. I take those, and leave the rest behind. I’ve done the same with religions too. Political philosophies too.
What I’ve noticed about any of these movements is that the people most likely to embrace them fully are one’s that essentially tell them that the way they think about a particular thing, despite being considered deplorable by mainstream thought, is right, justified and that they are not wrong for feeling that way. In some cases their reason for embracing these philosophies is because the movement spares them the discomfort of accountability. The movement, in subtle ways, will tell them that, because of who they are, they cannot be wrong, should not feel shame, and are exempt from criticism. In one stroke they receive validation and justification for their choices in life and for feelings that, if they were committed to being a self-aware human being, they would know are simply not right.
Any philosophy that tells you a large group of people (all men, all women, all of a particular race, all of a particular political group) are bad, deplorable or less somehow are not only wrong, based on every known statistical means of measurement, but they turn their adherents into simple minded followers as they convince them that common sense, actual facts, and observable realities should be denied in favor of their rhetoric.
Every individual human being is utterly unique and equal in their intrinsic value as a person. Any philosophy that offers up carefully formulated reasons why its ok for you to devalue others, to fail to treat them with the basic respect everyone deserves (until proven otherwise through their choices), is poisonous to society and, if taken in as the core principals of a society would produce a societal caste in which inequality, based on things like gender, race, age etc. would manifest.
Read everything. Think carefully about what you’ve read. Decide, based on reason and your own sense of morality, which is correct or incorrect. As you build your personal philosophy, it builds you into an ethical, compassionate, and principled human being. But never forget - any philosophy that tells you that all men, all women, all whites, all blacks, all rich, all intelligent, all heterosexual, all gay people are deplorable for some reason, is a weak minded philosophy incapable of creating positive change or progress in society.
What I’ve noticed about any of these movements is that the people most likely to embrace them fully are one’s that essentially tell them that the way they think about a particular thing, despite being considered deplorable by mainstream thought, is right, justified and that they are not wrong for feeling that way. In some cases their reason for embracing these philosophies is because the movement spares them the discomfort of accountability. The movement, in subtle ways, will tell them that, because of who they are, they cannot be wrong, should not feel shame, and are exempt from criticism. In one stroke they receive validation and justification for their choices in life and for feelings that, if they were committed to being a self-aware human being, they would know are simply not right.
Any philosophy that tells you a large group of people (all men, all women, all of a particular race, all of a particular political group) are bad, deplorable or less somehow are not only wrong, based on every known statistical means of measurement, but they turn their adherents into simple minded followers as they convince them that common sense, actual facts, and observable realities should be denied in favor of their rhetoric.
Every individual human being is utterly unique and equal in their intrinsic value as a person. Any philosophy that offers up carefully formulated reasons why its ok for you to devalue others, to fail to treat them with the basic respect everyone deserves (until proven otherwise through their choices), is poisonous to society and, if taken in as the core principals of a society would produce a societal caste in which inequality, based on things like gender, race, age etc. would manifest.
Read everything. Think carefully about what you’ve read. Decide, based on reason and your own sense of morality, which is correct or incorrect. As you build your personal philosophy, it builds you into an ethical, compassionate, and principled human being. But never forget - any philosophy that tells you that all men, all women, all whites, all blacks, all rich, all intelligent, all heterosexual, all gay people are deplorable for some reason, is a weak minded philosophy incapable of creating positive change or progress in society.
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9points
#6
I used to visit manosphere sites.
Why I did originally was because most of the media I was consuming was from women who were telling me that men are the problem, [get rid of] all men, all men are [criminals]. Being told that you are a villain is tough mentally. These were supposedly from feminists but they didn’t care about equality.
At the time I was struggling and wanted a place to accept that it was okay that I was struggling. (Struggling and being told that you have privilege and all of society is set up to help you, made me feel like a bigger failure).
However, the manosphere stuff also has many toxic talking points that essentially did the same thing. That all women are liars, will take advantage of you, etc.
I try to avoid both extremes and try to treat everyone equally and with respect.
Why I did originally was because most of the media I was consuming was from women who were telling me that men are the problem, [get rid of] all men, all men are [criminals]. Being told that you are a villain is tough mentally. These were supposedly from feminists but they didn’t care about equality.
At the time I was struggling and wanted a place to accept that it was okay that I was struggling. (Struggling and being told that you have privilege and all of society is set up to help you, made me feel like a bigger failure).
However, the manosphere stuff also has many toxic talking points that essentially did the same thing. That all women are liars, will take advantage of you, etc.
I try to avoid both extremes and try to treat everyone equally and with respect.
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7points
There are no easy answers when it comes to tackling toxic masculinity. However, a few approaches that can help include:
- Launching marketing campaigns to change social and cultural norms revolving around masculinity
- Offering programs that positively integrate boys and men into society
- Educating parents on the importance of creating safe, nurturing environments, as well as teaching kids to regulate their emotions
- Identifying and treating psychological distress
- Promoting healthy relationships that are free of abuse and violence
- Teaching parents about the damage of subjecting their children to physical punishment and humiliation techniques
#7
The Algorithm.
I'm afraid that is everybody's objective answer, regardless of the subjective understanding of their own whims. They followed the bread crumbs put in front of their ego. It lured them under a bubble/sphere propped up by a stick. And then they yanked the stick away themselves once they experienced the sauna of validation prepared for them inside compared to the cold bitter reality outside (made to look colder still by the algorithm elevating extremist voices on the left).
I'm afraid that is everybody's objective answer, regardless of the subjective understanding of their own whims. They followed the bread crumbs put in front of their ego. It lured them under a bubble/sphere propped up by a stick. And then they yanked the stick away themselves once they experienced the sauna of validation prepared for them inside compared to the cold bitter reality outside (made to look colder still by the algorithm elevating extremist voices on the left).
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7points
#8
Being hurt by women. Over, and over, and over, and over. And having that pain belittled and denied even after I left the manosphere. I have autism and ADHD so I notice things others don't, I'm socially awkward, and I have a hard time forgetting things like that.
Being subjected to "men are trash/dogs/useless/stupid/slow", and ruder things, every time I went on social media, even when I'd block or report that content in an attempt to get it away from my algorithm.
Being [exploited] by a woman and then having people who call themselves feminists tell me that it doesn't matter or it's a different, lesser category of crime because I'm not female.
Being treated like my consent is implied. Hell, my bodily autonomy was violated hours after I took my first breath - I was subjected to an irreversible cosmetic surgery that I would not be capable of consenting to for almost two decades.
Adult women started commenting on my body when I was 6 years old, and people treated it like it was nothing. So I treated it like it was nothing... But now? I'm not sure.
When I was a kid, I was subject to "be a man, don't cry, etc" literally from the moment I was able to understand those words until the moment I was large and imposing enough that the people doing it weren't comfortable saying those things to my face anymore. That came from, in my experience, almost exclusively women. My entire value system was beaten out of me, and I still struggle with self worth.
When I became an adult, people stopped seeing me as something to be loved and cherished (a child) and began seeing me as a man, something to be avoided unless I can be used for something.
I turned to the manosphere because it was literally the only place that kid me felt that I could have value as a person, and it felt like the only place where I wasn't being discriminated against. It was a coping mechanism. A trauma response.
But of course they were just using me and trying to turn me into a hateful person.
I escaped it because, throughout this time, I had good friends who were women, and the anti-woman rhetoric eventually just became too much for me.
I'm better now. I consider myself a feminist even though I hesitate to associate myself with the movement.
Being subjected to "men are trash/dogs/useless/stupid/slow", and ruder things, every time I went on social media, even when I'd block or report that content in an attempt to get it away from my algorithm.
Being [exploited] by a woman and then having people who call themselves feminists tell me that it doesn't matter or it's a different, lesser category of crime because I'm not female.
Being treated like my consent is implied. Hell, my bodily autonomy was violated hours after I took my first breath - I was subjected to an irreversible cosmetic surgery that I would not be capable of consenting to for almost two decades.
Adult women started commenting on my body when I was 6 years old, and people treated it like it was nothing. So I treated it like it was nothing... But now? I'm not sure.
When I was a kid, I was subject to "be a man, don't cry, etc" literally from the moment I was able to understand those words until the moment I was large and imposing enough that the people doing it weren't comfortable saying those things to my face anymore. That came from, in my experience, almost exclusively women. My entire value system was beaten out of me, and I still struggle with self worth.
When I became an adult, people stopped seeing me as something to be loved and cherished (a child) and began seeing me as a man, something to be avoided unless I can be used for something.
I turned to the manosphere because it was literally the only place that kid me felt that I could have value as a person, and it felt like the only place where I wasn't being discriminated against. It was a coping mechanism. A trauma response.
But of course they were just using me and trying to turn me into a hateful person.
I escaped it because, throughout this time, I had good friends who were women, and the anti-woman rhetoric eventually just became too much for me.
I'm better now. I consider myself a feminist even though I hesitate to associate myself with the movement.
6points
#9
Not into the whole "manosphere" thing but in general it's easier blame others for our own failures and lack of success. If you don't get a job, it's not because you're less qualified it's because "they hired a DEI person." If someone breaks up with you, it's not because YOU did something it's them.
Then, along come grifters who tell men "they" (some other group then the manosphere guys themselves) "took it away from you and are preventing you from succeeding" and they get rich from peddling this [nonsense].
It's a lot easier to sit in your parents' house and rage post on social media all day than to study, get an entry level job and work your way up. Or learn to socialize and network with others who will help you. Or talk to someone you want to date instead of waiting for them to pick you from an app. Or become financially literate and learn how to make and invest money.
I mentor about a dozen interns every summer and have helped a lot of them find jobs after they graduate. Very few white guys even bother to APPLY for the internships.
Then, along come grifters who tell men "they" (some other group then the manosphere guys themselves) "took it away from you and are preventing you from succeeding" and they get rich from peddling this [nonsense].
It's a lot easier to sit in your parents' house and rage post on social media all day than to study, get an entry level job and work your way up. Or learn to socialize and network with others who will help you. Or talk to someone you want to date instead of waiting for them to pick you from an app. Or become financially literate and learn how to make and invest money.
I mentor about a dozen interns every summer and have helped a lot of them find jobs after they graduate. Very few white guys even bother to APPLY for the internships.
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6points
What are your thoughts? This is a very sensitive topic, but if you want to share your thoughts and experiences, you are welcome to do so in the comments.
Have you ever embraced the beliefs shared by masculinity and manosphere influencers, or do you know someone who has gone down this road? Why did that happen? If you or your family or friends have become disillusioned by these movements, what made you change your mind?
From your perspective, how can society help young men develop a truly healthy relationship with masculinity while avoiding toxicity and radicalization? Let us know.
#10
I had a friend who was embedding himself quite deeply in the “manosphere” scene. Liked podcasts like fresh and fit, watched videos from other influencers in a similar vein etc.
I put it down to: conservative family background, overbearing mother, a TERRIBLE relationship experience and difficulties finding someone because they lived and worked in a fairly isolated way. His real world experiences throughout his 20s were very limited. You can’t also discount his mental health difficulties and expectations put on by family, society or whatever about providing, being successful etc.
Finding his now fiancé has helped tremendously but he still struggles. What we do as a friendship group though is make a real effort to connect with each other, check in, allow each other to vent and offer support and understanding.
I put it down to: conservative family background, overbearing mother, a TERRIBLE relationship experience and difficulties finding someone because they lived and worked in a fairly isolated way. His real world experiences throughout his 20s were very limited. You can’t also discount his mental health difficulties and expectations put on by family, society or whatever about providing, being successful etc.
Finding his now fiancé has helped tremendously but he still struggles. What we do as a friendship group though is make a real effort to connect with each other, check in, allow each other to vent and offer support and understanding.
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6points
#11
I'm not a red piller, but I get it. Imagine growing up in a poor household. You need to both work and study to get good grades. You take out a lot of loans, but you go to a state college where you still need to work. You get a degree and a decent-paying job. Then society dismisses your hard work and struggles and says you got there due to "privilege".
Imagine hearing every day how men have it so easy and how women are the only ones who suffer or struggle. Imagine hearing every day that women are perpetually oppressed and you are perpetually the oppressor.
When someone says, "hey, men aren't so bad." you are going to be drawn to that.
Imagine hearing every day how men have it so easy and how women are the only ones who suffer or struggle. Imagine hearing every day that women are perpetually oppressed and you are perpetually the oppressor.
When someone says, "hey, men aren't so bad." you are going to be drawn to that.
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5points
#12
I briefly read manosphere stuff because most messages I got to the contrary were "Yes all men. You are bad because you are a man. You are bad because of what color you are. Your father and grandfathers are even worse. We hate you."
The manosphere said "We don't hate you. We don't think you're bad."
But it turned out they are hateful in other ways. So I haven't read manosphere content in years.
The manosphere said "We don't hate you. We don't think you're bad."
But it turned out they are hateful in other ways. So I haven't read manosphere content in years.
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5points
#13
It's honestly not too complicated. The algorithim, when I was young and dumb and first introduced to the internet, pushed some videos or posts that basically demonized men for existing. This was my first time being exposed to that sort of direct prejuidice really (well, being directed at me, at least), so it caught me off guard. Then it annoyed me, then it got me angry. I engaged with the posts more, arguing in comments, or liking posts that were critical of the others. That pushed me further onto that side of the internet, where I'd also come across the counter to all of that. It'd criticize the misandrist posts, and then essentially validate me and propose the idea that there wasn't anything wrong with being a man, etc. After a while I eventually got exposed to more stuff, got older, and realized that both sides suck. So I kind of just tried to cut myself off entirely from that side of the internet, which worked.
Now I just try to be more pragmatic and logical about everything. I would say confidently I'm not into the "manosphere" anymore or whatever, though maybe in terms of, like, social beliefs or whatever, I could be called conservative. Either way it's pretty obvious to me now that on either side it's mostly just a cycle of hate begetting hate, at this point. Though I can't really say I have as much patience or empathy or whatever as you do lol, since it's genuinely agravting to see people my age or older still expressing these stupid takes and opinions when I know I grew up and evolved from all that already. That's what's the worst part about all of it to me. Not the opinions or whatever they express, but the fact that they have no excuse for being dumb, yet still are.
Now I just try to be more pragmatic and logical about everything. I would say confidently I'm not into the "manosphere" anymore or whatever, though maybe in terms of, like, social beliefs or whatever, I could be called conservative. Either way it's pretty obvious to me now that on either side it's mostly just a cycle of hate begetting hate, at this point. Though I can't really say I have as much patience or empathy or whatever as you do lol, since it's genuinely agravting to see people my age or older still expressing these stupid takes and opinions when I know I grew up and evolved from all that already. That's what's the worst part about all of it to me. Not the opinions or whatever they express, but the fact that they have no excuse for being dumb, yet still are.
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5points
#14
I turned and looked but never stepped in that direction. I was educated enough to catch myself falling into the psychological pit.
From what I've seen, the majority of modern men are ostracized. This is due to many factors, and I'm not an expert, so here are ignorant observations.
The internet - being chronically online has stunted the social skills of young people, more so young men it seems. Do that for a couple generations and you have a group of young men with very little social skills. The internet has also trained humans to be more greedy. Back in the days, people married their neighbors or that kid they went to school with. Now that the world is so much smaller, everyone keeps looking for their true love from across the globe. People are so much pickier, especially women (more on this later).
Modern feminism - men has become the subject of evil in the current feminist conversations. Women don't need men, men are pigs, etc. The truth is that most men need a woman. When they hear this rhetoric, they find it hard to reconcile their feelings with the modern rhetoric. They want someone to tell them that a woman needs a man too. And when people are already calling you evil, some say, "Might as well play the part."
Modern dating - app/online dating has done the most damage. There are some truths to the "hoeflation" that has been popularized in that community. Basically, women have become much pickier due to ease of access to a pool of attractive men and also the overwhelming attention that they get. Honestly, if I was that popular on dating apps, I would be too. But what this creates is a lopsided dating culture where the majority of women will chase the top few attractive men because it seems like a viable option now. This leaves the majority of men talking to bots.
With all of this combined, you end up with a bitter group of people who have seemingly been ostracized and left behind by society. They are then susceptible to rhetoric that validates their loneliness and frustration. And instead of empathizing and trying to understand, society just goes, "ew". At the end of the day, it's just a lonely soul wanting to feel loved and needed. But we live in a society where men don't have the emotional and social capacity to express those feelings, and women don't have the capacity to empathize.
From what I've seen, the majority of modern men are ostracized. This is due to many factors, and I'm not an expert, so here are ignorant observations.
The internet - being chronically online has stunted the social skills of young people, more so young men it seems. Do that for a couple generations and you have a group of young men with very little social skills. The internet has also trained humans to be more greedy. Back in the days, people married their neighbors or that kid they went to school with. Now that the world is so much smaller, everyone keeps looking for their true love from across the globe. People are so much pickier, especially women (more on this later).
Modern feminism - men has become the subject of evil in the current feminist conversations. Women don't need men, men are pigs, etc. The truth is that most men need a woman. When they hear this rhetoric, they find it hard to reconcile their feelings with the modern rhetoric. They want someone to tell them that a woman needs a man too. And when people are already calling you evil, some say, "Might as well play the part."
Modern dating - app/online dating has done the most damage. There are some truths to the "hoeflation" that has been popularized in that community. Basically, women have become much pickier due to ease of access to a pool of attractive men and also the overwhelming attention that they get. Honestly, if I was that popular on dating apps, I would be too. But what this creates is a lopsided dating culture where the majority of women will chase the top few attractive men because it seems like a viable option now. This leaves the majority of men talking to bots.
With all of this combined, you end up with a bitter group of people who have seemingly been ostracized and left behind by society. They are then susceptible to rhetoric that validates their loneliness and frustration. And instead of empathizing and trying to understand, society just goes, "ew". At the end of the day, it's just a lonely soul wanting to feel loved and needed. But we live in a society where men don't have the emotional and social capacity to express those feelings, and women don't have the capacity to empathize.
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4points
#15
I wouldn’t consider myself those things unless you consider anyone who isn’t a raging leftist a conservative or anyone who is against othering someone because of a perceived inequality a “MRA.” It really stems from years of being told that you’re bad because of something you have no control over. It’s the same reason people dive into any form of extremism.
We have a society that expects men to do what men traditionally do, but then we are disregarded or hated for it. We have rampant misandry. Our society demonizes men for liking masculine things. Our society demonizes straight men for their orientation. Our society demonizes men for being white, even if those white men are poor. When everything you are, that you have no choice over, is demonized and you are othered and told that your opinion doesn’t matter because of your gender, race, orientation, or religion, you start to become isolated. When you become isolated, you become vulnerable. When you become vulnerable, you become susceptible to extremism.
At the end of the day, most extremism (even light extremism) is caused by people looking to be accepted for who they are when they feel isolated from the world.
I also, as a dad, have witnessed society continuously demonize dads for being dads. When my daughter was a baby, we’d go out and about. There were rarely changing tables in men’s bathrooms. You were lucky if there was a family bathroom that wasn’t being occupied by someone who definitely could’ve gone into the gendered bathroom. I can’t tell you how many times some older woman would make a comment about how cute my daughter was and then immediately drop the comments about me “babysitting” or whatever like it made me so good. Men and dads are infantilized.
We have a society that expects men to do what men traditionally do, but then we are disregarded or hated for it. We have rampant misandry. Our society demonizes men for liking masculine things. Our society demonizes straight men for their orientation. Our society demonizes men for being white, even if those white men are poor. When everything you are, that you have no choice over, is demonized and you are othered and told that your opinion doesn’t matter because of your gender, race, orientation, or religion, you start to become isolated. When you become isolated, you become vulnerable. When you become vulnerable, you become susceptible to extremism.
At the end of the day, most extremism (even light extremism) is caused by people looking to be accepted for who they are when they feel isolated from the world.
I also, as a dad, have witnessed society continuously demonize dads for being dads. When my daughter was a baby, we’d go out and about. There were rarely changing tables in men’s bathrooms. You were lucky if there was a family bathroom that wasn’t being occupied by someone who definitely could’ve gone into the gendered bathroom. I can’t tell you how many times some older woman would make a comment about how cute my daughter was and then immediately drop the comments about me “babysitting” or whatever like it made me so good. Men and dads are infantilized.
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4points
#16
I'm growing more conservative as I age. Or maybe the standards keep raising and I just stay the same.
It's also much better when you literally go out to people and see how unhinged internet has become.
Right'ish things like Joe Rogan are sooo inclusive and tolerant to everybody. You can be a total crackpot, comedian, or respected scientist and there's conversation there.
Leftist online environments have so many DNI and weaponizing virtue to rip apart each other over wrong thoughts and wordings. I never feel relaxed interacting with them, because smallest infraction is taken as bad faith argument.
It's also much better when you literally go out to people and see how unhinged internet has become.
Right'ish things like Joe Rogan are sooo inclusive and tolerant to everybody. You can be a total crackpot, comedian, or respected scientist and there's conversation there.
Leftist online environments have so many DNI and weaponizing virtue to rip apart each other over wrong thoughts and wordings. I never feel relaxed interacting with them, because smallest infraction is taken as bad faith argument.
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4points
#17
I dont indulge too much into it, but I’ll ask this:
How many times does a man that works for those he loves to have phrases like, “It’s a man’s world.” be rubbed into his face until he’s fed up?
Let’s face it, those who run the world would throw all of us, man or woman, to the wolves if needed.
The vast majority of men who built civilization, who broke their backs to do it, did it to feed their spouses and kids.
At the end of the day, we don’t want control over women. We want to feel like what we do matters and is appreciated.
How many times does a man that works for those he loves to have phrases like, “It’s a man’s world.” be rubbed into his face until he’s fed up?
Let’s face it, those who run the world would throw all of us, man or woman, to the wolves if needed.
The vast majority of men who built civilization, who broke their backs to do it, did it to feed their spouses and kids.
At the end of the day, we don’t want control over women. We want to feel like what we do matters and is appreciated.
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4points
#18
I didn’t, but I believe it has a lot to do with the normalized misandry we’ve seen lately.
“I hate men.”
“Men are garbage.”
“Men are useless.”
“Why do we need men?”
“Men are creeps!”
“Oh my god! HE LOOKED AT ME IN THE GYM!!!”
“You criticized my behavior? YOU HATE WOMEN!”
When a demographic feels under attack, it’s more likely to dig its heels in and exhibit its traits more openly as a form of defense.
Americans displayed more patriotism during WWII and the NYC attacks.
Asians banded together when it was Whites who were mostly beating them up during the pandemic, according to reported beatings.
African Americans expressed their culture and their West African roots more openly in the 1970s when they were granted civil rights after 345 years. One reason was there was a backlash from conservative Whites. It’s no coincidence huge Afros and Blaxploitation movies came in style.
Speaking of which, conservative Whites voted in a man who openly expressed their ideologies because they felt attacked since there was a Black president. Now they go around feeling like they can openly expressing racism and bigotry and sexism. Elon Musk did that salute **twice,** only retweets stories about Black crime but not White crime, and allows racist rhetoric because of “free speech.”
None of this is new.
“I hate men.”
“Men are garbage.”
“Men are useless.”
“Why do we need men?”
“Men are creeps!”
“Oh my god! HE LOOKED AT ME IN THE GYM!!!”
“You criticized my behavior? YOU HATE WOMEN!”
When a demographic feels under attack, it’s more likely to dig its heels in and exhibit its traits more openly as a form of defense.
Americans displayed more patriotism during WWII and the NYC attacks.
Asians banded together when it was Whites who were mostly beating them up during the pandemic, according to reported beatings.
African Americans expressed their culture and their West African roots more openly in the 1970s when they were granted civil rights after 345 years. One reason was there was a backlash from conservative Whites. It’s no coincidence huge Afros and Blaxploitation movies came in style.
Speaking of which, conservative Whites voted in a man who openly expressed their ideologies because they felt attacked since there was a Black president. Now they go around feeling like they can openly expressing racism and bigotry and sexism. Elon Musk did that salute **twice,** only retweets stories about Black crime but not White crime, and allows racist rhetoric because of “free speech.”
None of this is new.
Report
3points
#19
A lot of it starts from feeling ignored in conversations about gender issues, like men's mental health gets dismissed while everything focuses on women's struggles.
3points
#20
Likely, men are not suddenly turning to conservatism or the manosphere; rather, older dynamics are now being described using new language. Men have traditionally gathered in spaces to discuss shared frustrations regarding work, status, relationships, and societal expectations. In the past, these conversations might have taken place in pubs, union halls, sports clubs, or male-dominated workplaces. Today, those discussions simply occur online.
What people refer to as the manosphere is often just men talking about familiar issues such as relationship breakdowns, divorce, custody experiences, rejection, dating struggles, and feelings of economic or social displacement. There is also confusion surrounding changing gender roles. None of these themes is actually new. The primary difference is that the conversation now takes place openly on the internet, is amplified by algorithms, and often becomes politicized.
For many men, it’s not necessarily about consciously choosing a belief system. Instead, a common pattern is that they face some difficult life event, such as a breakup, divorce, rejection, isolation, or career struggles. In response, they start seeking out people who have had similar experiences. When they find communities that provide explanations or frameworks for what they have gone through, they tend to remain engaged.
It is also essential to recognize that for several generations now, family breakdowns have become exceedingly common. In some circles, this has even been presented as a progressive or liberating phenomenon. However, the long-term consequences for children and adults are often far more complex than this narrative suggests. Growing up in an environment characterised by instability, separation, and fractured family structures inevitably influences how individuals perceive relationships, trust, and commitment later in life.
No one is laughing now, as the children of this generation struggle with hostility towards those celebrated ideas.
Thus, the phenomenon itself is not entirely new; it is simply being discussed using contemporary political and internet terminology, which is heavily influenced by U.S. perspectives and may not be universally accepted.
What people refer to as the manosphere is often just men talking about familiar issues such as relationship breakdowns, divorce, custody experiences, rejection, dating struggles, and feelings of economic or social displacement. There is also confusion surrounding changing gender roles. None of these themes is actually new. The primary difference is that the conversation now takes place openly on the internet, is amplified by algorithms, and often becomes politicized.
For many men, it’s not necessarily about consciously choosing a belief system. Instead, a common pattern is that they face some difficult life event, such as a breakup, divorce, rejection, isolation, or career struggles. In response, they start seeking out people who have had similar experiences. When they find communities that provide explanations or frameworks for what they have gone through, they tend to remain engaged.
It is also essential to recognize that for several generations now, family breakdowns have become exceedingly common. In some circles, this has even been presented as a progressive or liberating phenomenon. However, the long-term consequences for children and adults are often far more complex than this narrative suggests. Growing up in an environment characterised by instability, separation, and fractured family structures inevitably influences how individuals perceive relationships, trust, and commitment later in life.
No one is laughing now, as the children of this generation struggle with hostility towards those celebrated ideas.
Thus, the phenomenon itself is not entirely new; it is simply being discussed using contemporary political and internet terminology, which is heavily influenced by U.S. perspectives and may not be universally accepted.
Report
3points